Curse

freekedoutfish · May 08, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Hard Mode on a certain campaign is accessible by any lvl20 character on your account, aslong as atleast one has completed all missions on that campaign.

This means...

If you have completed Prophercies in Normal Mode with your main character, that character can then acccess Hard Mode in prophercies.

It also means any lvl20 character you have/create on your account, can then acccess Hard Mode in prophercies too. Even if you create them in factions or cantha and move them over to Prophercies at lvl20.

Once that character reaches lvl20, it has full access to Hard Mode on a campaign that a previous character has completed.

This leaves the entire Hard Mode option open to abuse by Bots.

All you need to do is complete a campaign with one character, then create a bot and level it up to 20 and it has full access to Hard Mode. It can then farm away to its hearts content in Hard Mode zones.

I previously made a post stating I thought you should have protector before having access to hard mode. I changed my view.

All im asking for now, to prevent bots in hard mode, is to make access unique to that character. This means only the character which completed the campaign can do Hard Mode.

What player is going to spend the time and effort creating a bot to farm Hard mode, if they have to make that bot complete the campaign first?

Most players who create bots, want to run them off like on a factory production line. They dont want to spend days completing missions over and over again.

I think making hard mode access unique to the character, would discourage players from using bots in Hard Mode. It would just be too much hassle for them.

And its not too much to ask players to complete the game first before getting hard mode, everytime.

nevelo · May 08, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I'm not a fan of a change that would make it harder for a casual player, in order to make it more difficult for those who abuse the system. If you can't find a way to make it harder for the abusers without affecting the rest of the playerbase, then it isn't worth the change (unless of course, the abuse of those players is directly harming the enjoyment of the rest of the playerbase).

Reasoning? Abusers of the system will find a way to abuse the system no matter what kind of changes you implement. You will only minorly hinder the abuse, while at the same time majorly inhibit a casual player's options. So, it's a simple ratio: you lose more then you gain.

This is a slippery slope argument, but I think it's valid.

Mr. G · May 08, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

You fail to notice one thing, sure i think getting my rit to complete factiosn before hardmode was good - but to complete 3 (almost 4) campaings each time for each char, i have 10 slots, 9 are PvE - you want me to complete 522 missions for full hard mode accsess?

And what would hard mode offer me then, the chance to do them AGAIN at a harder difficulty

if you ask me they should lower the req for hard mode, let level 10 chars in - sure its fast leveling, but for those who have completed before so whats the problem - and i want to do thge entire game in Hard mode - a 20 Req cuts off both noob isles and alot of proph

Div · May 08, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

No thanks. I would prefer not to finish the game a billion times over just to play hard mode on all my characters. And it's really easy to complete something like prophecies. The bots can easily be run to thunderhead, and it's just a matter of spending 3ish hours to finish the game to access hard mode for farming.

Lydz · May 08, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

I agree. I find it quite silly that a character can attempt a campaign in Hard Mode even if they haven't finished that campaign (or even started it in the case of foreign characters).

If anyone has the time to work towards the title on a number of different characters, I'm sure they have enough time to finish the campaign on Normal Mode first.

milkflopance · May 08, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

If anyone has the time to work towards the title on a number of different characters, I'm sure they have enough time to finish the campaign on Normal Mode first.

What if they dont want the titles, and all they want to do is play it?

freekedoutfish · May 08, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

You fail to notice one thing, sure i think getting my rit to complete factiosn before hardmode was good - but to complete 3 (almost 4) campaings each time for each char, i have 10 slots, 9 are PvE - you want me to complete 522 missions for full hard mode accsess?

And what would hard mode offer me then, the chance to do them AGAIN at a harder difficulty

if you ask me they should lower the req for hard mode, let level 10 chars in - sure its fast leveling, but for those who have completed before so whats the problem - and i want to do thge entire game in Hard mode - a 20 Req cuts off both noob isles and alot of proph

I see your point about having to do alot of missions, but opening up HM to anyone under lvl20 would defy the point of HM.

I agree limiting access for players is ideal. All ive done for the last 2 weeks is hard mode and trying to find PUGs is near impossible.

But to have people at lvl10 trying to join a HM pug is laughable. Its like seeing a lvl15 in the desert or the fire isles. Perhaps they are experienced players, but I dont want them in a PUG in a high end zone.

Their is no way they could play to their full potential, and it also discourages people to actually complete the game in Normal Mode first.

If you have the choice (once at lvl10) to continue in normal mode, or jump into hard mode and get better drops, which would you take?

Hard Mode missions are frustratenly hard.

From my experience of the last 2 weeks, you still get inexperienced players doing HM. Something I find staggering, concidering its meant to be something you do after you have already done the missions.

To add lvl10s into the mix would make HM sooo even more frustrating. I dont want someone without all their skill-points, no max health or max energy, no unable to use a max weapon and possibly little experience in a PUG in Hard Mode.

Keep the requirement at lvl20 if anything. Thats a given.

I cant say im not that bothered about people farming Hard Mode. It was just something I realised, which could be abused because access is very easy.

I dont want to restrict access to hard mode, but ive come to realise we have alot of lazey players in GWs, who arent willing to earn stuff.

freekedoutfish · May 08, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkflopance

What if they dont want the titles, and all they want to do is play it?

Where do titles come into this?

Im only asking they complete the campaign in question, not get protector (anymore).

Henchman · May 08, 2007, 10:12 AM // 10:12

The only way to make the system unabusable by bots is to shut down the servers.

Your point of making hard mode accessible to only the char completed the game in order to prevent bots makes about the same amount of sence as giving a 55 hp monk Contemplation of Purity. This action would only hurt the normal players.
A normal player who wants to have fun with different characters in hard mode would have to play with each one of them through the entire game.. not always very fun.
But bots are not here to have fun.
A bot needs only a SINGLE char- that char (55 hp monk probably) has to play through the entire game once, and then he is free to farm until the cops catch him. A bot does not need additional chars, so this change you are proposing will have absolutey no effect on them, unless for some odd reason, the person behind the bot would think that he needs more than one 55hp monk to do his work (which is pointless, since only one char can be looged on at a single time, and the poor monk does not get paid overtime anyways)

cellardweller · May 08, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

I'm not sure how this adds extra hurdles for bots -
Now: Complete the game once with your monk and farm hard mode
After: Complete the game once with your monk and farm hard mode

On the other hand, for players that play hard mode exclusively, its much more work -
Now: Grind through easy mode once and start playing properly with your other character characters
After: Grind through easy mode 10 times before being able to play properly with your other characters.

King Kong · May 08, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Its fine how it is, you can only play as one char on account at a time anyway

UBS · May 08, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Anet ban bots. When they ban 'bots, they ban Accounts, not characters. It's not as simple as getting banned on one character and creating another on the same account. Also, you can only use one character at a time, as stated above. Botters arn't gonna waste their time completing the game over and over just for hard mode.

Guildmaster Cain · May 08, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Still, HM requires you to finish a campaign on that account. In Tyria, this can be done in 3-6 hrs, in Cantha it takes 30-50 hrs and in Nightfall 50-70 hrs. That can not be botted.

Most professional bot-farmers dont care if one of their bots is shut down due to illegal activities. They just hack a new access-key or whatever and start farming again.
But now they will have to spend at least some time to start farming again. Only Tyria remains for easy HM access, since they can get runs to THK and then do the 3 Fire Islands missions.

My guess even that time is just too much for them. It would take the bot out of botting. They will just continue farming in normal mode, since the monsters dont run from AoE that much anymore.
Besides, a bot program doesnt know when to keep valuable items, like Tomes, Rares and all. It doesnt even identify the items I guess. All they do is get gold drops and item drops and sell what they can sell to the merchants.

OOOOOO... just came up with a anti-bot haxxx!

Make monsters drop items that can NOT be sold to merchant occasionally. These items should NOT stack either. Only way to get rid of them is to manually destroy them in the bin. Since a bot can not do this, his inventory will get flooded by unsellable items, so less revenue.

Corinthian · May 08, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Why would they create another bot for the same account?

I also believe the a person who manipulates a game's data stream to make the character do things is a lot smarter than the collective mind of this whole forum. They'll get around ANY obstacle you come up with.

ANY!

Guildmaster Cain · May 08, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

They dont mess with the data-stream. They use an autoclick program that presses buttons on the keyboard, in the same way as you press your keyboard.

If they mess with the data-stream they would be seriously hacking, which would make it for Anet easier to ban them. Since they use a third-party-program which is totally seperate from GW, Anet will need to hack their players Pc's to find out if they are using those programs. And would be illegal from their account, so they cant. So Anet can only monitor the players actions and decide if they are behaving like a bot or not.

Bryant Again · May 08, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

It would just halt bot activity for a moment. Then after they beat the campaign, they'll just be back up again.

COOL TROLL JOHN · May 08, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

The bot problem is a problem created by ANET because of the financial structure of the game, and they could easily fix the problem if they wanted and have no more banning of bots. Anet now has an ingame store as you all know by now.They could sell gold themselves in the store at a very low price so as to undercut all other outside vendors of gold. This would basically put the gold selling people out of business when the price goes too low for them to make money. By doing something like this anyone could have whatever amount of gold they wanted without the perpetual grind that comes with farming, allowing people to actually play the game and in the process create a good size income for ANET. Of course this would create the potential problem of ANET creating lots of rare items so as to boost the sale of gold. But in the end i believe it would be easier to deal with one company rather than tens of thousands of bots, and the banning process that goes along with this issue.

Henchman · May 08, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

OOOOOO... just came up with a anti-bot haxxx!

Make monsters drop items that can NOT be sold to merchant occasionally. These items should NOT stack either. Only way to get rid of them is to manually destroy them in the bin. Since a bot can not do this, his inventory will get flooded by unsellable items, so less revenue.

They are called tomes. Although they are stackable.

Keithark · May 08, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

Still, HM requires you to finish a campaign on that account. In Tyria, this can be done in 3-6 hrs, in Cantha it takes 30-50 hrs and in Nightfall 50-70 hrs. That can not be botted.

.

Cantha can be done in 11 1/2 hours...I did it with a Necro and had help from guildies every now and then but it was not hard to complete in that time at all

Necromonger · May 08, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Who cares, time and time again, players and ANET come up with all these suggestions to counter Bots.

Forget the bots, as was well said, the bots will figure out a way whatever you do, it always ends up affecting the causual gamer the most.

I for one do NOT want to have to beat three campaigns with all my characters just to get access to hard mode, that is no fun for me, and neither is trying to beat the game in sub 12 hours (just not how I play).

So can ANET forget about bots, and start to worry about me the player please.